New Delhi: Call it far-sightedness or humility, Ram Vilas Paswan, leader of Lok Janshakti Party, is not one to be swayed when his name is proposed for prime ministership. 

It happened in 1997 when the Congress Party brought down the Deve Gowda government that Paswan's name first figured for the top post, although it ultimately went to Inder Kumar Gujral. 

Recently, the National Dalit Front, comprising three Dalit political parties, named Paswan as their prime ministerial candidate. But, as earlier, it has not fazed the veteran leader.


Terming US President Barack Obama's ascent to the high seat as a major boost to Dalit politics in India, the NDF feels that politics needs to be redefined and focus should be shifted to social issues.


Paswan has served as federal minister under five different Prime Ministers and has the distinction of holding cabinet berths in all the Council of Ministers formed since 1996. 

As he gears up for the forthcoming Lok Sabha elections, Gulf News spoke to Paswan, who is now Minister for Chemicals, Fertilisers and Steel in the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government.

Gulf  News: Elections these days mean 'marriage of convenience'. Political rivals suddenly form alliances claiming they have joined hands on the basis of certain principles. 
 
Ram Vilas Paswan: Three types of people enter politics - idealists, professionals and fashionistas. Out of these, ideology has a permanent entity. It is not a garment that can be worn and discarded.


Also, secularism and social justice are issues that stay put. But yes, there are times when 'enemy of the enemy is our friend' policy takes over. That is because there is a numbers game in politics. 

And to stay ahead of others, political parties align with others for their own interests. But, by and large, in the end, it is only ideology that survives.
With every passing election, the electorate is becoming disappointed with the politicians.

I do not agree with it. If that were so, why would people including businessmen, film stars and journalists want to join politics? Black sheep can be found in every profession.


But the advantage of politics is that unlike in other professions a politician immediately listens to the grievance if someone of his ilk has ill-treated the victim. He immediately raises the issue against his opponent. These are the plus points in a democracy.

How do you foresee prospects of the Nitish Kumar government in Bihar in the elections?
Peoples' expectations from his government were very high. Although law and order has improved considerably, but as far as development is concerned, despite the central government allocations, the funds have not been utilised in the state. There has been no change in poverty, employment and corruption.

But Bihar had been in a state of disarray for so long under former Chief Minister Lalu Prasad that it might take time to streamline things.
Yes, but the present government had more than three years and three months to prove itself. One cannot always keep escaping by blaming the previous government. If that were so, why did people elect the new government?

Has your own strength dimmed that you had to join hands with Lalu Yadav and the Congress?
 
See, one cannot stand in the middle of the road. There is UPA on one side and National Democratic Alliance (NDA) on the other. In the last two state elections, we did not align with any party and that is the reason that Nitish Kumar became the chief minister. 

Moreover, people were seeking a change from Lalu's government. Even for the forthcoming elections, till now we have no understanding with any party. But our decision is to fight on 16 seats. If an understanding is reached with the UPA, it is fine; otherwise we shall contest on our own.

You think the UPA will make a comeback?
 
Yes it will. 

You had remarked 'joining the NDA was the biggest mistake in your life'. You could say the same for the UPA after sometime?

The situation has changed. That time it was Lalu's government in Bihar and people wanted to topple him. So, alliances were formed. It was just as socialists, communists and the Bharatiya Janata Party came together to remove the Congress Party from power at one time. 

This time also alliances are being worked out. But my difference with the BJP during the NDA regime was on the issue of riots in Gujarat and that is why I resigned from the government.


The good and the bad of UPA government's performance in the last five years?
Initially, the price rise was being made an issue. At that time, we were saying it is an international phenomenon, but people treated it as a joke. Later, realisation dawned when inflation was being talked about the world over. But gradually, the issue of price rise came under control. 

After that, the nuclear deal became a sore point. But soon, people comprehended that those steps were being taken so that the welfare and interests of the nation were not compromised. 

Similarly, the issue of terrorism has been tackled in the right manner. India, which was considered a 'soft state', made a strategy where it is the first time that Pakistan has been isolated. The US is not friendly with it anymore.
Whether it is these or issues related to communalism, social justice or minorities, the UPA has shown a good track record during the last five years.

Your opinion on India having a Dalit (untouchable caste) Prime Minister, more so Mayawati?

Mayawati has no new ideology. Her Bahujan Samaj Party was known for its concern for the Dalits and minorities. At that time she used to criticise the Brahmins. 

But taking a U-turn she is now garlanding the Brahmins. This is no social engineering. The ground realities came to the fore during the recent assembly elections when she lost miserably. 

To appease the Brahmins, her Dalit vote is crumbling. In fact, there is now a division among the Dalits themselves. Amidst all this, she dreams of becoming the prime minister. But then, everyone has a right to dream. 

Unlike many politicians, including Lalu Prasad and L.K. Advani, you never forward your name for prime ministership?

It is to be understood that by naming oneself, one will not become the prime minister. First, it is up to the electorate and then upon the coalition parties, to reach a common decision. Lalu is outspoken. 

As for Advani, it is his last chance. He has to promote himself because no one else is doing that. These things happen only when a person's confidence level shakes. BJP is today, a divided house.

One should give the BJP its due. For unlike it, no other party, over the years, has been able to make a base all over the country. What would you attribute this to?
They exploited the religious sentiments of the Hindus, which gave them instant popularity. Politics of ideology is a difficult path and its impact is slow, whereas fanatic slogans can play with peoples' emotions. 

But the result was seen in the 2002 Uttar Pradesh elections when they got the drubbing in Ayodhya itself. Secularism is in the hearts of Indians, irrespective of the caste they belong to. And issues like religion cannot be harped upon forever.